“Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art.” – Andy Warhol Apply Now
Please note. Please do not contact Nicky. She has been gracious enough to share what she has learned here but she has been contacted by one too many other artists wanting her time and energy and it’s just become too much for her. -Ann Rea
– Technology is our friend, technology is our friend.
– Well, yes, as long as it’s Chrome.
– As long as it’s Chrome. So hello, everyone. This is Ann Rea and Rebel Rea joining you from San Francisco. And this is Nicky Jameson, who is joining us from Toronto, but originally from London. And we could tell based on her backdrop there. So I asked Nicky to join us because she’s learned a lot in the Making Money Semester. I wish we had time to go into all that she has learned. She’s been a great student. But Nicky, I want you to travel back in your time machine before you enrolled in the Making Art, Making Money Semester and what pops into your head as what was your … Hello. What was your your number one challenge? What were you most
– [Nicky] Okay, go on.
– Hi, guys.
– Hey, listening, Rebel. We’re trying to do an interview here. Okay. So What was your number one challenge? What was the thing that was challenging you the most before you started?
– Okay. So before I started, I had several challenges, but if I can pick on one, it was being a little bit scattered. Well, not a little bit, a lot scattered in the sense of I knew I wanted to do art, but there were all sorts of ways and directions I could go in. And particularly in the art world, it was, “Okay, what setting should I do, landscapes? “Everybody is doing landscapes. “Should I do portraits? “Everybody is doing portraits.” What did I want to do and why did I want to do it, and how did I know it was the right way for me was the biggest thing, because I thought, I didn’t really think consciously of it, but I thought, I know that it was something, but I didn’t know whether I should be chasing the next bright shiny thing, or how did I focus on what could actually be a guide and direction for me so that I would know how to pinpoint, this is what I should be doing, this is why I’m doing it, this is who I’m doing it for, and so on.
– You know that now, and you know why you’re doing it, why you’re doing what you’re doing, and who you’re doing it for?
– Exactly, exactly. And that’s why, if there’s one big takeaway from the Making Art, Making Money course, that really riveted me and focused me, through the various ways that you did it, but at the end of it, focused me on, okay, this is what I’m here for. This is the purpose, this is my purpose. Here’s how I express that purpose. And off you go.
– So it really cut down the clutter in my mind as to, should I be chasing the next biggest thing because it’s popular or it’s not popular? It was like going from shifting sand to something a little bit more solid that I could put my finger on.
– What do you think about that, about artists who are not sure and they’re bouncing around, there’s a shiny ball here, a shiny ball here, what do you think about that? Is that productive? Is that what you should be doing?
– It is not productive. When I look back, and sometimes you could only see it in hindsight, it’s actually pretty scary, because you can waste a lot of time and years not knowing what you should be doing. And it’s like night and day, really. And there’s a lot of, as you know, a lot of stuff in the marketing world, how to do this, how to do the other, and the only way you can cut through that noise is actually knowing your purpose, your creative purpose, and building on that as your launch, as your springboard. And that actually comes from knowing yourself, because it’s like, “Okay, what am I here in the world to do? “Of all the hundreds of things I could do, “what am I here to do?” I think that, particularly for me, and I would say for artists, I see when they, just out of the questions some artists ask, that if they knew that, a lot of the other questions would be answered.
– Right, yeah, exactly. And it’s not just … So it is absolutely foundational to selling your art, there’s no doubt, but also, it has all these other positive ramifications when you really understand your creative purpose. In my experience, I see artists, as their focus goes from one to 10, their self confidence follows along.
– Totally, yes. I will actually say that. It’s really hard to explain it. It’s hard to explain it. It’s something that you feel, but you almost feel like no matter what happens, you know that you’re on this path, and confidence really is a huge thing. But you can only, I feel, get to it by knowing exactly who you are and what you’re about, I mean, what you choose to do. What you’re here to do is another matter, right?
– Yes, exactly, yeah.
– Conversation, but knowing who you are, and I think particularly for artists, and I can speak for myself, it is absolutely critical, because there is so much pressure to bend this way and that way, and you just are spinning on the spot. And it is actually destructive and I think quite concerning to the artist themself, because they never really know if they’re on the right path or not.
– Right. And it’s painful because there’s artists that are going at it for decades and decades thinking, “Oh, I just gotta create a new body of work “and maybe that will work.” Well, hope is not a marketing strategy.
– [Nicky] No.
– Or a business plan. And so you can do that allday. You can experiment with your creative medium and master it, completely master it, and still you’re not getting paid, you’re not getting recognized, and it’s sad. It’s actually sad and hurtful when you don’t.
– Yes. I totally agree. I try to, without beating people over the head, to say, because people ask in the different groups I’m in and people I meet, artists ask marketing questions ’cause they genuinely trying to find a way–
– To start.
– Yeah, from A to B to sell their creations and make a living from it, or at least work at what they feel they should be doing. And it’s funny, because I only realized this after I took the course, the business course, and I didn’t know that that was what I was going to find, but afterwards I saw, yeah, that makes sense. You have to start at this point and you work your way through it, but the thing is, to me, it’s like a path. It’s like, the path was dark. This will be the path that, okay, I know I’m following my purpose here, and so this makes sense and this doesn’t, so I can leave that aside and not waste my time–
– Edit it out. You edit out bullshit. You edit out activities–
– You edit out, “Oh, I gotta have so many Facebook fans.” You edit out whole parts of just huge, enormous to do lists.
– You can sit down.
– You can focus on the right things and at the right time, ’cause Rome wasn’t built in a day. You’re not gonna get it all done at once.
– Incremental changes and improvements, and through improvement process. So all right, that’s really good. All right. So what would you think was your … What’s the second challenge that pops into your head when you think about before?
– So my second challenge is one I haven’t completely solved. I don’t know whether I’ll ever solve it.
– What is it?
– It’s actually finding time to do the things that I know I should be doing now that I know how to be doing them. Yeah. And I wanna say that there’s no … I think if you want to sell art or sell any creation or do anything, really, there is no overnight success. There is no shortcut. And you come to it where you come to it, and particularly for me, you do what you can with what you have at that point, and you make a plan for going forward, so you have a long term plan. But at the moment, I’m still working full time, and it has its pros and cons, and I’m more creating my art on my weekends and evenings. I don’t really have much of a social life, unless you call the art social, but I do it all outside my day job. And I find sometimes, I think a lot of artists feel a bit of a stigma for doing that. And my thing here–
– How the hell else are you going to do it if you’re not–
– How are you going to–
– I have been in, and this is where it came from back to my creative purpose. This is what I have to do. I’m gonna have ways and means to do it. And you have to start where you are. I can’t jump from here to wherever. All I can do is have a plan for going in that way and use what I have right now. And–
– That’s what you want to do. So one thing, I remember when you and I talked on the phone during your one-on-one, I was so glad you brought this up, because there’s this whole stigma about your legitimacy as an artist if you’re a full time artist versus a part time artist. And I would, right here right now, like to call bullshit on the idea that your art is only worth something if you do it full time–
– Do it full time.
– But there’s such an artificial, stupid–
– It is. It is, it is. It’s one of those straight jackets that I think we have to free ourselves from, because I think artists are the only people, you think of people who are famous actors today, all of them did things to support their creativity until such a time when they could move into it full time.
– And let me just say, when they’re in it full time, they’re doing lots of different things. Look at Jennifer Lopez. She’s selling perfume.
– Oh, absolutely.
– She’s dancing.
– They’ve got diverse streams of income. I just want to say, Ann, I have been in a situation with another creative enterprise where, and I folded that one, where there wasn’t money coming in, and I tell you, it is not fun. You can’t think creatively when you’re worrying whether the roof is gonna stay over your head or whether you can put food on the table.
– So this time around, I thought, “You know what? “It’s nobody’s business. “It’s my business.” And I will build this creative enterprise, and if I have to be working at the moment, ’cause the work was already there first, it wasn’t that I started and then went looking for it, and until such a time when it becomes practical to do it full time if that’s what happens, then I will do it then, but–
– If you want to.
– Now, I’ve gotta get out and do the work and not worry about whether, am I really an artist? It’s just a waste of energy. It’s a waste of energy and time worrying about that.
– I think it’s a great way to put it is a straight jacket that you’re putting on yourself.
– You put it on yourself.
– Why would you do that? It’s not necessary.
– [Nicky] No, not at all.
– So many businesses, I live in the midst of tech heaven here. And Silicon Valley has so many businesses that start as a side gig and start as a side project. And I was just watching the Netflix series on Girlboss, which also, she started here in San Francisco. We actually have some friends in common. And she was working as a receptionist at the art academy while she was doing her side gig. No one goes from, they’re having an idea about being an artist to being a full time artist all of a sudden. And I think some of the press that I’ve received is a bit misleading, because it gives the … I was actually on a show called Quit Your Job, and I say, “Don’t quit your job. “Don’t quit your job.”
– Don’t quit your day job yet.
– No, no.
– Until you’re ready.
– Not until you have enough sales. Really, don’t do what I did, ’cause I put myself under an extraordinary amount of–
– You were bold doing that.
-Snotty Scotty. My last boss, his nickname was Snotty Scotty. No, I did not name him that, but he was snotty. I just couldn’t take it anymore. But I don’t recommend that. Do it sensibly, and do it … Stress does not enhance creativity. It does not enhance productivity. It doesn’t enhance anything, so you wanna manage your stress and manage the transition. If that’s what you choose to do when you choose to do it, that’s all right. So, we gotta wrap this up. So Nicky, if you could give one piece of parting advice, either travel back in your time machine to yourself before you knew what you knew now, or other artists, what’s one thing you would say to them? What’s one thing you would recommend?
– I would recommend taking the time to know their creative purpose. In other words, to know who they are and who they stand for. That’s the thing that will carry you through life, regardless of whether it’s art or anything else that you wanna do. Quite frankly, it’s a life thing. And I feel that if, as an artist, if you don’t know who you are, how can you connect with other people? How can you connect with your audience? Because you’re coming from a place of authenticity, and that is who you are, regardless of whether anybody likes who you are. That’s neither here nor there.
– Don’t worry about that.
– Not a popularity contest.
-not a lot of people will, so–
– Not a lot of people will. They won’t understand that, but so what? So take the time to do that, and the patience, and realize that this is a long game. There’s no overnight success. There are no magic bullets, no magic beans. And take all the learning, ’cause this is the only course I know that a lot of people say, “Know your why and know your this,” but they’re not talking about the same why. They’re talking about–
– They’re not telling you how to find it.
– A different kind of why, a small W why.
– They never tell you how to find it. That’s what pissed me off. I’d be like, “Find my why? “How the hell do I find my why?” And then I dove in, like, “I’m gonna figure out how to find the why.”
– Yeah. And like you say, it’s not a thinking thing. It’s a feeling thing. It’s a feeling thing, but nobody can tell you this. You know the answer already. You just have to be ready to meet with yourself and accept it and then move forward, and then the walls kind of break. It doesn’t mean that it’s any easier. It’s just easier in a different way, and you can kind of–
– I’m glad you said that, because–
– That’s what I would say.
– I’m so glad you said that, because what you said is no one can tell you your why. So a lot of people want me to tell them their why. And I can’t. You have to own it. I can sense if you’re not being completely authentic or you’re in head and you’re not feeling, but you have to own it. And let me just ask you this, Nicky. When you landed firmly in your why, wasn’t it something that was there all the damn time?
– It was shockingly obvious. I couldn’t believe it. It was shockingly obvious. But I knew that. And it was great. I have to say, it’s the afterwards when you know and you think, “Right, okay. “I’ve got it now. “I understand.” But it’s something that, because it’s you. You’re hiding behind all these little structures and things that you’ve built up and what other people say, think, and who people think you should be, and all the rest of that rubbish. It’s there. It’s just that you help bring it out and really get with yourself and feel this thing through. And once you have that, you just know that you know, if you see what I mean. So yeah. Once you’ve got it, it’s like, “Okay, I know. “I’ve got it. “I’ve got it now.”
– Right. I know who I am, I know what I stand for, and I know what I stand against, and I’m not making any apologies to anybody.
– Absolutely, absolutely.
– Yeah. Well on that note, Nicky, it’s really been a joy to watch your progress, and I fully expect that it’s just gonna continue because you’re smart and you’re attentive and you get on it. You’re not whining, “This is hard.” You just do it.
– Oh, no. Go get to it. Thank you so much–
– Just do it.
– Course. I just wanna say, thank you for this, the Making Art, Making Money course. At the time I took it, I thought, “Oh my gosh, this is costing such a lot of money.” And I didn’t afford it. But it’s worth it. And the education that goes to that level is worth it. It’s one of the few, notfor it or anything like that, but personally, I find that I don’t know another course that actually does what you’re doing for artists from that authentic place. So I would just encourage artists to, if they can do it, do it, and it’ll save you years and years of hardship and worry and all the rest of the rubbish that we can do without.
– Thank you so much, Nicky. It’s worked for you ’cause you did the work.
– Yes, oh yes. I had to do the work.
– I wanted to I really appreciate what you just said, but I also just wanna say, it’s worked for Nicky ’cause she did the work, because she showed up and she went through all the courses. And when she had questions, she asked. And she’s contributed a lot to other people who come in confused. So thank you so much, Nicky. I just wanna just tell you how much I appreciate you and your And I just love watching you rock it. So thank you.
– Thank you so much.
– All right. Take care.
– Thank you. Bye-bye.
“Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art.” – Andy Warhol Apply Now