Making Art Making Money a Scam

Making Art Making Money a Scam

(Transcription)

Artist Christopher Goodsell 
Roswell, Georgia

Ann Rea: (00:01)
Okay, everyone. This is Ann Rea Coming to live from San Francisco, California. This is my student, Christopher, who also goes as “Topher.” And where are you? Atlanta?

Christopher Goodsell: (00:12)
Just north of Atlanta in Roswell.

Ann Rea: (00:14)
Okay. Roswell. Alright. So, I’ve actually interviewed Christopher before, once before, but he’s had some amazing strides since we last chatted. And a number of his fellow students want to study with him. So I’m going to give this opportunity for him to share pearls of wisdom, which I believe you said was just “Do what Ann said.”

Christopher Goodsell: (00:39)
Yes. Yes. Pretty much. I’ve, you know, I’ve tried to reinvent the wheel several times, but I always end up back doing what the course has, and it’s amazing.

Ann Rea: (00:49)
Thank you. Well, you’re amazing for just doing it because I can’t tell you it’s really– these are your results because you took the action, and you had the faith to do it. I didn’t do these things for you. I don’t do these things for my students. They’re brave enough to do it themselves. But it does help to have a roadmap that works. But let’s go back in time for those of you who’ve never, you know, because not everyone knows who you are or what this program is all about. So before you joined Making Art Making Money, what would you say your top two challenges were?

Christopher Goodsell: (01:27)
I didn’t think I was good enough.

Ann Rea: (01:31)
You personally, or your art? So this is a really interesting question. Okay. But notice how artists will say, they won’t say, “I didn’t think my art was good enough.” They say, “I didn’t think I was good enough” which is a much more damning statement if you think about it.

Christopher Goodsell: (01:50)
Yes. Absolutely. And I remember a couple of weeks into the course, sitting down on the floor in the living room and bursting into tears. I’m like, “This is not what I’m meant to do.” I’m crapped. I’m frozen. I can’t do it. Just total freak out. And what was kind of underneath was, “Alright, this is the time, Christopher, when the rubber meets the road” like you’ve invested in a course. There are other people for whom it’s obviously working. Right? So if this doesn’t work for you, this is you. Not the course. And I just froze. I just completely panicked.

Ann Rea: (02:29)
What do you think triggered that? Was there a moment that triggered that?

Christopher Goodsell: (02:35)
Was there a moment?

Ann Rea: (02:39)
Did you have like, something going on? A belief in your head or something?

Christopher Goodsell: (02:44)
Oh yeah.

Ann Rea: (02:45)
What was it?

Christopher Goodsell: (02:46)
Yes, so absolutely. Well, it was that whole thing about, “Is my art good enough?” Mm-hmm. And I realized that by signing up for the program, I’d actually backed myself into a corner.

Ann Rea: (02:59)
Mm. So, okay. So now it’s like make it or break at time.

Christopher Goodsell: (03:03)
Yes. Because it’s alright failing if you’re not doing anything about it.

Ann Rea: (03:08)
Yes. And this is what a lot of people are doing. Nothing.

Christopher Goodsell: (03:12)
Yes. So that’s okay because, you know, you didn’t take a risk. But signing up for the course, I was like, “Oh crap!” Like, now I’m in a program where I’ve spent money, I want to produce results. I’m talking to people for whom it’s working. So, you know, get on it. And it was paralyzing for me for weeks.

Ann Rea: (03:36)
Wow. But yes, I remember you did scream and kick for a bit, but then, but then fast forward. But before we go fast forward, well, so your challenge was, it sounds like a combination of things. You didn’t think your art was good enough, but you also were just really riddled with self-doubt.

Christopher Goodsell: (03:57)
Yes. Very much. And you know, my dad just passed away at that time.

Ann Rea: (04:05)
I remember. Yes.

Christopher Goodsell: (04:06)
Yeah. And you know, you know about English people obviously.

Ann Rea: (04:13)
Yes, I do.

Christopher Goodsell: (04:14)
Yes. So —

Ann Rea: (04:15)
Their product is not emotion. Okay?

Christopher Goodsell: (04:18)
Yes, absolutely. And so, I didn’t grow up thinking that art was a thing anyone could do for a living. Right? There was no support for that even though I was always artistic. My entire family was. That’s a hobby. It’s something you do, right? To try and do it for a living that’s stupid and irresponsible.

Ann Rea: (04:36)
Right.

Christopher Goodsell: (04:36)
So there was all of that voice about, “Alright, you’re being irresponsible. Who do you think you are? That you could do this? You’re obviously not good enough. You’re stupid. You’re da-da-da.” And, you know, reading the book “Code to Joy” and working on the emotional stuff, it all came up. But it was absolutely time to deal with it. And the last year has certainly been intense and I’ve had to choose even when it’s one of the things I’ve realized is discomfort means I’m doing the right thing.

Ann Rea: (05:15)
Mm-hmm. It means you’re growing.

Christopher Goodsell: (05:17)

Yes. Being comfortable means I’m resting on my lowerside. Not trying hard enough. And so there’s been a great deal of discomfort this year as I’ve stepped into having conversations, making requests to people, you know, and I was doing the prototype projects, and that was working. And then, you know, I have this friend with a yoga studio and she let me put some stuff up in there and showed it around, and a hotel saw it. And so they bought a giant piece out of there, which was amazing.

Ann Rea: (05:49)
And how much did that sell for?

Christopher Goodsell: (05:51)
25,000.

Is Making Art Making Money Worth It?

Ann Rea: (05:53)
And what did you sell prior to joining? How much?

Christopher Goodsell: (05:58)
Over the course of my life?

Ann Rea: (06:01)
No, just like the previous 12 months. So the previous 12 months before you joined the program, you sold how much of your art?

Christopher Goodsell: (06:07)
Zero.

Ann Rea: (06:08)
Zero. Since you joined the program, would you mind sharing what your art sales are looking like now? Total?

Christopher Goodsell: (06:17)
$128,000.

Ann Rea: (06:18)
128,000. Okay. Everyone, what I want to put on full display right now is we’re having two conversations. Right? A lot of artists say, “I don’t wanna know about that mindset stuff. It doesn’t matter.” Okay. But guess what? Your life is the story you’re telling yourself about yourself. And your story was, “I’m not good enough.”

Christopher Goodsell: (06:42)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (06:44)
“I shouldn’t be doing this. This is a hobby and this isn’t something that I should pursue, and it’s foolish.” Okay. You change that story. You’re still changing the story and the results is in your checking account. Right? It’s a $128,000. So it’s a pretty good return on your investment.

Christopher Goodsell: (07:03)
Yes. You know, and I know I contacted you early to sign up for a second year because of {Unintellegible}.

Ann Rea: (07:12)
{Unintellegible} by the way.

Christopher Goodsell: (07:12)
Yes. I knew I was selling more art in the program than outside. So it was like, you know, “Will I make the tuition back a second time?” Duh. You know, I absolute belief by this point because I’d already done it.

Ann Rea: (07:24)
Right.

Christopher Goodsell: (07:25)
And the last piece I did was something completely new for me. Right? Something I had never done before and, but suddenly I had permission to try stuff.

Ann Rea: (07:39)
Don’t you feel braver once you–

Christopher Goodsell: (07:43)
Oh yes!

Ann Rea: (07:43)
Once you really understand your mission and you really understand that if you create more value above and beyond the art, you can charge more money. And once you understand that you don’t need to be sleazy or salesy or pushy, as a matter of fact, it’s not going to work if you do that, but you actually just need to guide inspiring conversations. Doesn’t it free you to experiment and have a hell of a lot more fun?

Christopher Goodsell: (08:06)
Yes. And knowing that what I had done was working gave me the freedom to experiment. So the last piece I did had ground up Malachite powder and —

Ann Rea: (08:21)
Oh nice!

Christopher Goodsell: (08:23)
And gold paint and glitter and pearls and all kinds of crazy stuff. And it was koi fish.

Ann Rea: (08:30)
I think I saw that image. That was stunning. Yes.

Christopher Goodsell: (08:33)
Yes, and it got to the end and I’m like, “Holy crap!” But for me, it felt like kindergarten because I’m covered in glue and stuff. Right?

Ann Rea: (08:38)
Yes.

Christopher Goodsell: (08:39)
And then the hotel that bought the other piece, they saw it and they’re like, “Yes, we want that.” Like before it even got out of the house, they’re like, “Yes, we want that.” It’s crazy, right?

Ann Rea: (08:50)
Yes. Okay. So it’s working and there you go. So you’ve got other students who want to study with you right now. And what advice would you give to them?

Trusting Yourself

Christopher Goodsell: (09:05)
So the biggest thing I’ve learned is that I can trust myself.

Ann Rea: (09:11)
Yes.

Christopher Goodsell: (09:12)
And now my conversations are really direct.

Ann Rea: (09:15)
Yes!

Christopher Goodsell: (09:16)
Cause I’m standing in a– you know, I’ve learned so much talking to you because you’re so clean and clear in your communication, which is amazing. And so when I’m talking to people, I’m kind of black and white about it. This is the piece, this is what I charge, this is what it means,. Da-da-dah. I don’t get emotional, I don’t care. I’m not attached.

Ann Rea: (09:37)
Right. Some will. Some won’t. So what? Next.

Christopher Goodsell: (09:42)
Yes. And I have– it really doesn’t affect me at all if someone says, “Oh, I don’t like it.” No worries.

Ann Rea: (09:50)
That’s their privilege.

Christopher Goodsell: (09:52)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (09:53)
They can like it or not like it. I mean, this is the thing, it’s people. Artists take everything so personally. It’s not personal, you know? You wouldn’t wear every bit of fashion that comes down the runway. It doesn’t mean that the designer is not a great designer. It doesn’t mean that someone else wouldn’t love it. It just– art is in the eye of the beholder. Period.

Christopher Goodsell: (10:22)
One of the things that happened on this last piece that I did, at the end of it, I was actually proud for the first time.

Ann Rea: (10:31)
Oh, thank God!

Christopher Goodsell: (10:33)
I actually looked (unintelligible).

Ann Rea: (10:34)
I’m so glad to hear that. You should be proud.

Christopher Goodsell: (10:35)
That was good.

Ann Rea: (10:37)
Yes, of course. I mean, remember. You’re your own boss. You’re your own employee, so you got to motivate your employee, right?

Christopher Goodsell: (10:46)
Yes. Yes.

Ann Rea: (10:48)
You really do. You have to motivate them. And then, you know, the employees got to do a good job. The boss has to do a good job. You really have to manage yourself in ways that I don’t think other professionals have any idea how much self-management we have to do as fine artists.

Christopher Goodsell: (11:08)
One of the other things that you’ve taught me and the course has taught me is that I am several kinds of employee. So yes.

Ann Rea: (11:18)
Yes. It’s more than one.

Christopher Goodsell: (11:19)
Yes, exactly. Right. I’m the artist. I’m the accountant. I’m also the sales guy.

Ann Rea: (11:25)
Right. But you’ll get to a place, Christopher, as you evolve and you develop systems that you’ll start to be able to delegate–

Christopher Goodsell: (11:34)
Sure.

Ann Rea: (11:34)
pieces of this, right? Like the bookkeeping and all that goods. Like things like the first thing to go are the administrative tasks.

Christopher Goodsell: (11:41)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (11:41)
Because they’re no fun. And, well, typically. Unless you’re like, really enjoy it. If it sparks joy, then keep it. But–

Christopher Goodsell: (11:50)

Ann Rea: (11:51)
Typically, that’s got to go. The salesperson. You know, there’s never really going to be anyone better than you.

Christopher Goodsell: (11:58)
Right.

Ann Rea: (11:58)
And now that you know how to do it, it’s not that hard.

Christopher Goodsell: (12:01)
Yes. Well, it’s, you know, relating to myself as an employee who is employed to create sales, that’s a really different conversation from “I’m selling. I’m trying to schlep my art.”

Ann Rea: (12:16)
Right. Or sell myself for heaven forbid. That’s the worst notion. It’s the one of the most self destructive, unproductive notions that artists are carrying around in their head that they have to sell themselves. You are not for sale, of course. You’re not selling yourself.

Christopher Goodsell: (12:34)
Right.

Ann Rea: (12:35)
You don’t have to sell yourself.

Christopher Goodsell: (12:36)
Right.

Ann Rea: (12:37)
And if you believe for a second that you’re selling yourself, you’re going to feel internally conflicted and it’s not going to work. And it’s going to come across. You’re going to feel, you’re going to come across as hesitant. You’re goin to come across as lacking in confidence, and it won’t work. That’s why you’ve got to serve a mission that’s greater than yourself. Because it’s not about you. Right?

Christopher Goodsell: (13:00)
Yes.

Is Making Art Making Money a Scam?

Ann Rea: (13:00)
Answer this question. I almost didn’t join the Making Art Making Money program because? Dot, dot dot. Fill in the blank. Tell the truth.

Christopher Goodsell: (13:12)
Because I thought Making Art Making Money was a scam and I didn’t trust it.

Ann Rea: (13:16)
Yes!

Christopher Goodsell: (13:17)
Yes. Absolutely.

Ann Rea: (13:19)
Okay. I’m so glad you said this because tell me– first of all before I go into it, tell me more. Tell me why you thought it was a scam and why I’m a scammer.

Christopher Goodsell: (13:31)
. Well, I’m someone who signed up for a lot of online courses and you know that I bought a website that cost me five or six grand.

Ann Rea: (13:44)
I do.

Christopher Goodsell: (13:45)
I sold zip on.

Ann Rea: (13:48)
Of course you sold zip. You didn’t know your niche.

Christopher Goodsell: (13:51)
Yes. And you know, I spent five grand on an art booth and paying to be in art shows. And I was kind of like, Well, crap!” You know, and it was just none of those things worked. And I’m like, “Alright, this isn’t going to work either.”

Ann Rea: (14:07)
Right. 

Christopher Goodsell: (14:07)
It’s just like the others.

Ann Rea: (14:09)
Right.

Christopher Goodsell: (14:10)
And then it would– you and I had a conversation and I remember saying to you, “I am perfectly happy to be a whore for my art.” And you said, “That’s not required.”

Ann Rea: (14:21)
No.

Christopher Goodsell: (14:22)
And I’m like, “Oh, she actually understands this stuff.”

Ann Rea: (14:25)
Do you think it’s required now?

Christopher Goodsell: (14:27)
No! No! Not at all.

Ann Rea: (14:28)
Of course not!

Christopher Goodsell: (14:29)
No!

Ann Rea: (14:29)
Such a silly! So that idea, “I’m a whore for my art” or “I’m prostituting myself,” you can trace that back to the underlying belief that you believe you have to sell yourself.

Christopher Goodsell: (14:40)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (14:41)
Once you understand that you are not in the position of having to sell yourself. You can get rid of all those wrongheaded very stifling and disrespectful ideas. They’re gone.

Christopher Goodsell: (14:50)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (14:51)
They’re gone. So I love that you thought Making Art Making Money was a scam and you gave me money anyway. I thought, you know– and we did a– this is such a common thing now. It’s a common thing. And so I actually surveyed my students. In the interest of full transparency, my students have– I don’t know what the poll says right now, but it was something like 51 or 41% of them thought “Is Making Art Making Money a scam?” before, or that it might be a scam before they enrolled. I don’t know if that says more about me or more about them. But what I think– you included. But here’s the thing what I think what it is. It’s that I’ve identified 32 of the most common ineffective, time-consuming, expensive as all get out and confidence crushing strategies that artists are handed. And of course they all freaking fail. So it makes perfect sense that when and if an artist ever arrives at my door, they don’t, of course they don’t believe anything is going to work because nothing has.

Ann Rea: (16:09)
Does that makes sense?

Christopher Goodsell: (16:10)
Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, it’s been so good for me. I actually got one of my friends to join up and he is on, you know.

Ann Rea: (16:20)
How’s he doing?

Christopher Goodsell: (16:20)
Yes, he’s doing brilliantly. He has already had one art event, stroke appreciation party.

Ann Rea: (16:27)
Nice.

Christopher Goodsell: (16:28)
I hope it’s okay that I say the number, but he sold six grands worth of art.

Ann Rea: (16:32)
Woohoo.

Christopher Goodsell: (16:33)
It’s amazing, right? And I remember in that conversation with you, the question you asked, “Do you believe that you could at least make your tuition back?” Right?

Ann Rea: (16:44)
Right.

Christopher Goodsell: (16:45)
And I knew that if I focused on art for a year, I could at least do that. I like I trusted myself and I trusted you that much. And then when it started to happen, I was like, “Well, holy crap.”

Ann Rea: (16:59)
Why stop here?

Christopher Goodsell: (17:00)
? Yes. Yes. Exactly.

Ann Rea: (17:04)
Yes.

Christopher Goodsell: (17:05)
I’ve gotten so much braver.

Ann Rea: (17:08)
Good.

Christopher Goodsell: (17:09)
We mentioned the last time we talked about me going to a party and having a rolled up painting in the car because I knew I could slip it out of the party. And once people see art, everything changes. Right?

Ann Rea: (17:23)
Right.

Christopher Goodsell: (17:24)
It’s very different from being online.

Ann Rea: (17:25)
Right.

Christopher Goodsell: (17:26)
And three commissions at that party just bang.

Ann Rea: (17:29)
Right. And I love it’s such a known a no-tech. It’s a no-tech way. And one of the things that a lot of fine artists are really spending a lot of time and wasting a lot of money with is the overuse of technology. Now, I freaking love technology. And there is a place for technology and you must master certain of technology if you want to sell more of your art.

Christopher Goodsell: (17:53)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (17:53)
But it does not have to overwhelm you and what I’m seeing is the tail is wagging the dog.

Christopher Goodsell: (17:58)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (17:58)
People are spending enormous amounts of money on websites, e-commerce sites that of course they’re not selling any art because they don’t know their niche. And what that means is if you know your niche, it means you know, who wants to buy your art, why they want to buy it, and where and how to go find more people just like them. And I think you even asked me like, “Where should I build a site?” I’m like, “Just go use Instagram stores. It’s free.”

Christopher Goodsell: (18:24)
Yeah.

Ann Rea: (18:25)
Or shops. Instagram shops. Just go use that for now. You don’t even need it right now.

Christopher Goodsell: (18:31)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (18:31)
I mean I just, I saved all y’all a bunch of money. Okay? Just now.

Christopher Goodsell: (18:35)
Seriously. And one of the other great pieces of advice you gave me, you know, I had like 300 prints done.

Ann Rea: (18:43)
I know.

Christopher Goodsell: (18:43)
And you pointed out that the effort in selling a print is the same as selling a piece of fine art. And so–

Ann Rea: (18:52)
It’s actually more effort.

Christopher Goodsell: (18:56)
Yes. So they are honest because in Georgia, we’re not allowed to burn anything right now. And there will be a bonfire, I promise.

Ann Rea: (19:02)
Can I see a photo of it?

Christopher Goodsell: (19:04)
Yes. Yes, absolutely. But I mean literally when we had that conversation, all of that went away. And since then it’s only been originals.

The Affluent Buy Art

Ann Rea: (19:14)
Can you explain– okay, so one of the things I tell– so I teach luxury marketing Okay? And sales. And that means the affluent. Okay?The affluent by art. Right? And so the way they make buying decisions is very different. And affluent person is not looking for a cheap print. It is easier to sell a $10,000 original, or in your case a $25,000 original than it is to sell a cheap print. Can you explain, how in hell did you wind up buying 300 reproductions and for what purpose?

Christopher Goodsell: (19:50)
So, you know, I’m in a unique position because in my business I have access to print equipment.

Ann Rea: (19:57)
Oh, okay. Alright.

Christopher Goodsell: (19:59)
So I was able to do them, but still all the supplies, and the time and, you know, hiring people to produce that many for me, it was certainly in the thousands. Right? And it’s because so many people had said, “Oh, your art is expensive. Do something for people who don’t want to spend that much.”

Ann Rea: (20:22)
They’re not your customer.

Christopher Goodsell: (20:23)
Right.

Ann Rea: (20:23)
No, that’s not your job. That’s not your job.

Christopher Goodsell: (20:26)
Right.

Ann Rea: (20:27)
Tiffanys does not have a line that they sell at Walmart. Doesn’t work that way.

Christopher Goodsell: (20:34)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (20:35)
I mean, what a colossal waste of time and injury to their brand, if you imagine they did. Right?

Christopher Goodsell: (20:40)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (20:42)
You are not your customer. If you learn nothing from today’s chat, you are not your customer. Okay? They make decisions differently. So let me ask you this one last question. If someone was sitting on the fence and they were not sure about applying to enroll, and by the way, admission is only available by application. Unlike all these other places where they’ll gladly take your money. They’ll gladly take your money. And by the way, can I also mention, I’m seeing this chickity talking about, “Sell six figures of your art.” And I’m like, “No one can guarantee that!” So I want to make sure everyone is clear that Christopher is Christopher. These are his results. They may or may not be your results. You might get less results. You get may get more. It just depends. But if anyone is giving you a number that’s called an “implied income claim.” And it’s a violation of the Federal Trade Commission. Please don’t pay attention to people who are making those kinds of promises. If they’re sharing what their students have done. That’s one thing. But it’s still– I need to be really clear. You may or may not reach these results. You may get less. You may get more. That’s it. If someone was sitting there, maybe they think Making Art Making Money’s a scam., “I’ve paid you a handsome sum.”

Christopher Goodsell: (22:12)

Ann Rea: (22:13)
What would you honestly say to them?

Christopher Goodsell: (22:19)
If you want to take your art seriously, then to get into a structured program that supports you in doing that, I think is a really smart thing. And out of all the ones that I’ve done and wasted money on, this is the only one that’s produced results for me. And it’s produced results in way more than art.You know, I feel differently. I behave differently. And you, you know, pointing out that art is emotion and working on both of those at the same time has really changed things. And so I think Making Art Making Money is the right course. And I know that sounds cheesy, but as an artist, as someone who’s sensitive and emotional, it’s worked. So yeah.

Ann Rea: (23:13)
Right. And when you say you feel differently and you behave differently, what does that look like? How is it different? Have your feelings changed and how has your behavior changed?

Christopher Goodsell: (23:30)
So, the $25,000 puppy painting was not priced. And the hotel saw it and they said, “How much is it?” And all old thoughts were there, right? And my palms were going to sweat and all that was going to happen. And I just looked them straight in the eye and said, “Oh, this one’s 25,000.” Mm-hmm. They didn’t even flinch.

Ann Rea: (23:56)
Right.

Christopher Goodsell: (23:57)
And they’re like, “Okay.”

Ann Rea: (23:59)
Yes.

Christopher Goodsell: (24:00)
Inside I’m like, “Holy crap!” But the ability to do it without flinching, that’s really new behavior. And to not feel like I had somehow cheated them or defrauded them or taken too much.

Ann Rea: (24:14)
They bought another one!

Christopher Goodsell: (24:15)
. Yes. Well, yes. And– but I was actually able to really stand in my value and feel good about it, which is amazing.

Ann Rea: (24:21)
That’s huge. That’s huge.

Christopher Goodsell: (24:24)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (24:25)
Yes. And you know, it’s okay if that those little gremlins are going (unintelligible) in the back. Just let them be you. Just ignore them and do the right thing anyway.

Christopher Goodsell: (24:38)
Yes.

Stop Discounting Your Art

Ann Rea: (24:39)
Which is to ask for the price that you deserve.

Christopher Goodsell: (24:43)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (24:44)
Period. No discounts. No discounts anyone. No discounts. When you discount your art, you’re signaling you’re not very confident. And you devalue your art immediately and you tarnish your reputation because it looks like your prices don’t have any integrity. Right? It’s awesome. Okay. So you obviously you feel more confident. You feel– I feel like you feel more inspired than before.

Christopher Goodsell: (25:19)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (25:20)
And it seems you’ve also made some new friends in the community.

Christopher Goodsell: (25:25)
Yes, very much. I’ve got a call a few weeks ago from a local gallery. And they were like, “We’ve seen your art. We want to talk to you about representing you.” And I said actually, “I’m not looking for representation.” .

Ann Rea: (25:50)
Does that feel good or what?

Christopher Goodsell: (25:50)
That was, all I thought I ever wanted, you know.

Ann Rea: (25:54)
Now explain to people who are listening, why did you say no to the art gallery?

Christopher Goodsell: (26:01)
Because they are not specifically going to represent me. I’m just going to be one artist in there. Mm-hmm. They will represent or put the most effort into whichever artist is selling the most. And I will never get to meet my buyers. I won’t know who they are. So I can’t develop a relationship. I can’t develop them as a collector over time. Mm-hmm. .

Ann Rea: (26:27)
And why does that matter? Why does it matter that you can’t, if you went through an art gallery or an art representative, that you wouldn’t be able to connect with your own collectors? Why does that matter?

Christopher Goodsell: (26:38)
Yes, it’s two things actually. One, I am so much more fulfilled working directly with someone and creating a piece that’s about, that’s really about them. And it’s a co-creation and that is, that’s amazing. But secondly, meeting them, having them be happy and satisfied with the project and hopefully buy more art later. But then also showing the piece to their friends mm-hmm. And so it begins to snowball.

Ann Rea: (27:11)
Right. And so what happens is when you have a relationship with your collectors and you have a solid referral strategy, that means you can sell about 80% more of your art and keep 100% of your money. Think about that math for a minute, everyone. That’s a staggering statistic. And I’m going to tell you why. When someone is referred to you, or let’s say you are referred to someone else, like a small shop or a restaurant, you are 82% more likely to buy and spend more money. And that’s why the relationship is so key. Real relationships equal revenue. And your art representative or your collector is going to block you even though in many states it’s actually illegal for them to withhold your collectors’ contact information. So for all you representatives out there doing that, shame on you. Shame on you. It doesn’t belong to you.. You don’t have any investment in the inventory. You only can sign it. You haven’t paid for a thing. So you’ve got no right to block artists from their own customers’ information. Can you imagine any business? You own a business. Can you imagine any business that would exist if it didn’t have its customer’s information?

Christopher Goodsell: (28:29)
Yeah, no, it’s crazy.

Ann Rea: (28:30)
It’s crazy! And that’s what they’re proposing. So that’s why I’m so glad you said, “No, thank you. Tata.”

Christopher Goodsell: (28:39)
Yeah, . And it felt great and true and authentic.

Ann Rea: (28:47)
Yeah, exactly. Nothing personal, but not interested. This has been great. I hope all the students listen to this chat and just work, and trust the process, everybody. And trust yourself. And even when it feels uncomfortable, I think it’s the moral to this story.

Christopher Goodsell: (29:06)
Absolutely.

Ann Rea: (29:06)
Because it’s going to feel uncomfortable. But it’s a lot less uncomfortable than enduring the same crap that isn’t working, and not getting the results that you want and that you deserve. That’s way more uncomfortable. And you got a lifetime sentence of that if you don’t make a change. Right?

Christopher Goodsell: (29:28)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (29:28)
So proud of you! So glad we could chat.

Christopher Goodsell: (29:32)
Yes. Thanks, Ann.

Ann Rea: (29:33)
Yea. Someday, maybe we’ll meet in person.

Christopher Goodsell: (29:39)
Yes. I love San Francisco. So, yes.

Ann Rea: (29:41)
Alright then. Thanks again for taking the time out of your busy day to chat and share your story with everyone and answer the question “Is Making Art Making Money a scam?”. I appreciate it.

Christopher Goodsell: (29:48)
Cool. Thank you.

Ann Rea: (29:50)
Bye.

Christopher Goodsell: (29:51)
Bye.

Ann Rea

Ann Rea, Fine Artist & Mentor

Ann Rea is a San Francisco-based fine artist. She created Making Art Making Money, the leading and most reputable business program for fine artists since 2005. Rea’s art and business savvy have been featured on ABC, HGTV, Creative Live, The Good Life Project, in the book Career Renegade by Jonathan Fields, the San Francisco Chronicle, Art Business News, Fortune, and Inc. Magazines. Rea’s artistic talent was commended by her mentor, art icon Wayne Thiebaud. 

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