An Artist Who Has Become More Of Who She Is
An Artist Who Has Become More Of Who She Is
(Transcription)
Artist Courtney Zach
Buffalo, New York
Ann Rea: (00:01)
We are live. Hi!
Courtney Zach: (00:02)
Hi Ann!
Ann Rea: (00:03)
This is– my name is Ann Rea. I’m a fine artist and a mentor. And I’m the creator of the Making Art Making Art Making Money® School of Business. This is one of my recent graduates, Courtney. And Courtney, where do you live? I don’t even know.
Courtney Zach: (00:16)
I live in Buffalo, New York. In New York. Buffalo!
Ann Rea: (00:08)
Okay. I grew up in Cleveland, so I’m familiar with the snow situation. That’s pretty bad. Yes. I don’t miss that part. So, there’s some back– there may be some background noise so I apologize, everyone. But Courtney, before you joined the program, would you be willing to share what your top two challenges or struggles were?
Courtney Zach: (00:43)
Sure! My biggest struggle I think was confidence. I didn’t really do much art and try to sell it at that point, so I didn’t really know what I was doing. And another thing that really didn’t help was not having a strong network. There weren’t really many people. I just actually moved from South Korea to Buffalo right before I joined the program. So I didn’t have any friends. And even there, the art community wasn’t really welcoming. And there were– it was more like we got– there was a lot of jealousy and that kind of thing.
Ann Rea: (01:21)
Yeah. I’m not saying all art communities are like this, but this is a major complaint of artists is that what’s happening is the art establishment pits us against one another. And so we feel a sense of scarcity and then that yield– that, then jealousy arises. Right? And that’s where snobbery comes from because if people who are acting like art snobs are actually just deeply insecure and it’s a coverup for very, you know, a sense of scarcity and a sense of insecurity. So I’m– so, sorry. So you came to the Making Art Making Money community. What were we like? Were we jealous?
Courtney Zach: (02:03)
Not at all. Actually, it was very welcoming and we were all on the same page. Or there were people who were at a level above us who were always willing to help, you know. Help, you know, the things that we were confused about, answer questions or just kinda steer us more on the direction that we wanted to go so it was really, it was an eye-opening experience and it was something I think I really– it was something that was missing.
Ann Rea: (02:28)
Yes, because it’s hard to do something hard by yourself, right?
Courtney Zach: (02:32)
Yes.
Ann Rea: (02:33)
And it’s way more–
Courtney Zach: (02:34)
And it takes longer.
Ann Rea: (02:35)
Yes. It takes longer. You might not even do it, might not even pull it off. And it’s so much fun when you have a like-minded community to celebrate with you and be great, you know, be happy for you. You know, that’s– and not jealous, but happy for you because if you do it, that means they can do it.
Courtney Zach: (02:54)
Exactly.
Ann Rea: (02:55)
So let’s talk about your confidence. So, it’s one thing. I mean, you’re not alone in this. Most people who– most artists who are accepted into this program on a subjective scale of one to 10, they rate their self-confidence pretty low. Where did you rate your, where would you have rated your self-confidence before you joined on a scale of one to 10?
Courtney Zach: (03:18)
Definitely a two.
Ann Rea: (03:21)
Okay. So two is average, by the way. Now where is it on a scale of one to 10?
Courtney Zach: (03:26)
An eight.
Ann Rea: (03:27)
Eight. Okay. So that’s triple you guys. That’s huge. So now what’s really important, the only way you get from a two to an eight like Courtney did, is if you have a certain level of commitment. So, Courtney, on a scale of one to 10, when it comes to learning how, you know, when you entered the program, how committed were you to learning how to market and sell your art? Where were you?
Courtney Zach: (03:56)
That actually was a huge change. By the end of the program, I realized that you have to– it’s up to you to do the work. Like nobody can do that part for you, but you have to be committed and you have to be like, dedicated to having a schedule, to keeping with the schedule. Staying focused is very important. So all of those are all things that I learned and that really helped bring my art sales up.
Ann Rea: (04:21)
Yes. So it affects– it affects your sales, right? It absolutely affects your sales. So where do you think– where do you think your commitment was when you started and then it obviously evolved, but where do you think it was at when you started?
Courtney Zach: (04:34)
Oh, my commitment, well, see, to doing art was maybe a five. But actually going out and trying to sell it was definitely at a one because it was so scary like even talk. Like for one, talking to people about my art, I didn’t know how to do that. And two, even like suggesting like putting money in between, that makes it really hard because asking for money in return for something that you’re giving someone is really uncomfortable.
Ann Rea: (05:02)
Well, hold on. Is it, and how– alright, so let’s talk about your comfort level because I’m very comfortable with it, but no one starts super comfortable. So, that’s natural. On a scale of one to 10, how comfortable were you asking for money for your art when you started the program?
Courtney Zach: (05:19)
That’s a one.
Ann Rea: (05:20)
A one. That’s okay. So obviously you’re not going to get paid much if it’s a one.
Courtney Zach: (05:24)
No.
Ann Rea: (05:25)
Where is it now?
Courtney Zach: (05:26)
Now it’s– it’s up there, it’s a seven. It’s just a slightly lower, like sometimes I still get scared, but I am improving every day. So it’s much higher than it was.
Ann Rea: (05:37)
But, I mean, look at the difference. A jump from a one to a seven. That’s a pretty significant increase.
Courtney Zach: (05:44)
Yes.
Ann Rea: (05:45)
So if you got from a one to a seven, you can have faith that you’ll get to a seven to a 10
Courtney Zach: (05:50)
For sure. I definitely know that will happen. And it was just a– my confidence grew. Like the more I practiced, the more I talked to people, it got more comfortable. So it was just a matter of getting used to it.
Ann Rea: (06:03)
Like making art. Right? The first art you make is, well, let’s face it, it’s pretty, it’s pretty much crap, right? And then you– and you accept that like, okay, that’s not that good, but I’m still learning. And then you do it again and you do it again. So I believe, and I’m curious what you think, I believe learning how, learning how to sell and market, and sell your art using luxury marketing principles, not conventional principles because they do not work, but luxury marketing and sales strategies. I think that’s actually way easier to learn and master than making art. But what do you think?
Courtney Zach: (06:42)
Well, I learned to make art so long ago.
Ann Rea: (06:48)
Right.
Courtney Zach: (06:48)
So it’s hard to, but I mean obviously it took much longer to learn art and you know, that took, you know, 20 years. Whereas this program got me to learn how to market to a luxury market in, you know, a year. So that’s a huge difference.
Ann Rea: (07:04)
Right? And so what happens is most artists will continue on and keep learning how to make art and refining their art then, but they don’t really, they’re too scared. They’re too scared to learn this other skill which will give them what they want, which is validation by getting paid. They see– but you have to have some courage, right? Did it take some courage to invest in this program, invest in yourself, and believe that you can do it?
Courtney Zach: (07:33)
It did take courage, but it wasn’t, you know, the most courage I think happened, you know, after like starting the program wasn’t hard, but sticking through it was the hard part. Because once you get in it, you think it will be easy, but it gets harder. And when you get to that point where you’re like, “I don’t know if I can do this anymore because I have to do really hard things, that’s when you need the courage because you have to be able to see what your progress will look like in a year. Not what your progress looks like today. Because sometimes that could be discouraging.
Ann Rea: (08:03)
That is an excellent perspective. Yes. If you judge the totality of your potential by a day, you’re kind of screwed because days are great and days are not great. But commitment, if you have a commitment, you’ll last through the ups and downs and success is not a straight line. Like I’ll get– when I get a question from an artist or they’ll say something like, I want to replace my paycheck. I’m like, “Good fricking luck because it’s not going to happen because sales go up and down.” It’s not a paycheck. So don’t apply to my program if you want to replace your paycheck because that’s not actually possible. It’s not the way it works. Alright. So I’d love to know what was the biggest thing that you learned or took away from the program. Because it’s different for everybody.
Courtney Zach: (08:57)
One of the biggest takeaways was realizing that what I had was just a limiting belief. And it was something that I could overcome because I thought that I just wasn’t good at this skill. And that it was in the same way that some people would be like, well I’m just not good at art so I’ll never be. But this program really showed me that with the right people and with the right training you could– you can like get over those fears and you can master anything you want.
Ann Rea: (09:26)
Nice. Oh, I love hearing that fear, false evidence appearing reel. Have you ever heard this? Fear is not a good decision-maker. It is not a good decision maker. Fear. What I’ll tell my students a lot is just do it scared and then the next time you do it you’ll be less scared. But if you’re waiting to be comfortable to do something brand new that’s challenging, you’re going to fail. Because it’s not possible. It’s like it’s not possible to replace your paycheck with art sales. It’s not possible to learn and grow and stretch yourself without feeling uncomfortable part of the time. It’s like you, if you work out, it’s not always comfortable to be all sweaty and out of breath. Right?
Courtney Zach: (10:14)
Exactly.
Ann Rea: (10:15)
Okay, so that’s a huge, huge thing. Now let’s talk about, like, I want to go circle back to this whole thing about the community or what was your– and and maybe what your experiences were like in the past. You don’t have to name any names, but can you tell me like what was one experience you had with other artists or other artists, communities that hurt you or that upset you? Can you give an example again? You don’t have to name.
Courtney Zach: (10:49)
Oh yes, I can. I have a perfect example. There’s this lady who I’m good friends with and for whatever reason she would never invite me to her art shows. She would invite all of my friends, but she would never invite me. But we would be friends outside of the art community. It’s just, she never wanted me there for her big events. And I felt like it was not jealousy, but there was like some kind of like competition going on that only she was aware of.
Ann Rea: (11:21)
Yes, there’s a lot of unconscious, and conscious competition amongst artists, which is really a warped perspective because when you know your niche you’re not, no one can compete with you. You don’t have to worry about competing anymore. You stop competing with other artists. Matter of fact, none of you should compete with other artists. The only competition you should be in is for the time and attention of a prospective collector and that’s it. So– but the art establishment does a great job at pitting, pitting us against one another so we don’t play that game. Okay. So let me ask you this question. I’m going to ask you to fill in the blank. I almost didn’t join because, and you can be honest, I don’t care what it is.
Courtney Zach: (12:04)
The money actually.
Ann Rea: (12:06)
It’s expensive. Yes. It’s expensive. Was it worth it?
Courtney Zach: (12:12)
Definitely.
Ann Rea: (12:13)
Okay.
Courtney Zach: (12:13)
I would do it again.
Ann Rea: (12:15)
Alright. That’s good. Alright. And to be clear, you didn’t graduate on time
Courtney Zach: (12:20)
No
Ann Rea: (12:21)
But we stuck with her, Courtney. Because Courtney didn’t give up, so we didn’t give up. Yes. So we were like, okay, well, we’ll just get you over the finish line. So she did graduate.
Courtney Zach: (12:28)
Yes.
Ann Rea: (12:29)
So that’s, and that’s okay. Everyone learns at a different rate. It’s okay. It’s fine. What matters is what you said, like you’re, you just, it’s– you have a different view and you know your mission now.
Courtney Zach: (12:43)
And that’s very important.
Ann Rea: (12:44)
So if one, if, let’s– if you could go back in time and you could give advice, like you started learning how to make art 20 years ago.If you could go back to that younger version of Courtney and give her advice or encouragement, what would you say to her?
Courtney Zach: (13:03)
What I would say to her was, you know, like it’s, it’s up to you to decide like what you’re going to do with your life. Like nobody, and I said this before, like nobody’s coming to save you. So you have to be the one to figure out what’s important to you and how to get there. And so what I would tell my younger self is, you know, don’t listen to what other people are saying. Because you get a lot of nos, especially being an artist, like, “Don’t do that. You can’t do that, you shouldn’t do that.” And I, what I would tell her is, “You know, you just keep doing what you’re doing and keep figuring out what path you are striving towards. Like, you have your compass already. All you need to do is point it in the right direction and you’ll get there eventually. And I did.
Ann Rea: (13:46)
And maybe hire a Sherpa before you go mountain.
Courtney Zach: (13:49)
Yes. And hire a Sherpa. Exactly. If 20 years ago I would’ve met you,then maybe I would’ve gotten to the top faster.
Ann Rea: (13:57)
Let’s just say you enrolled in, Making Art Making Money didn’t exist 20 years ago, but if you had enrolled 20 years ago, do you think you’d have a different life?
Courtney Zach: (14:05)
To be honest, I wish more schools were like that. Like art schools, I wish were more like Making Art Making Money because that’s–
Ann Rea: (14:12)
They can’t be.
Courtney Zach: (14:13)
Making Money because– They can’t be. They, well, for good reason because you’re trying to do the opposite of what they want from us. So honestly, like this is what people should be learning in school. ’cause this is what’s important, especially for this kind of work. Like, we have to be the ones like going out and spreading like what we’re doing because no one else is going to do it for us.
Ann Rea: (14:33)
Amen. And I’m so glad you recognize that. No one is coming to save you. You are never going to be discovered. The only– a successful artists discover themselves
Courtney Zach: (14:44)
And they do it themselves.
Ann Rea: (14:45)
And they do it themselves. They own their business. They own their business. They own their future. They own it. And that’s key. So if someone was listening to this and they were sitting on the fence and they weren’t sure. “Should I apply to enroll in this program? Should I not? Is this a scam?” What would you honestly say to them?
Courtney Zach: (15:05)
Well first, I would say it’s not a scam. It’s like this is something that could really impact your future. And if you decide to enroll, make sure that you put in the work because you’ll get out of it what you put into it. And so number one, do it. Like join the program if it’s a good fit for you. And also join the program and do the work because your life will change. And like you’ll– like you won’t even recognize who you are a year from now.
Ann Rea: (15:37)
Well, I see that in you. You’re– you’ve got a different energy and level of confidence entirely. And I’m so proud of you and I’m so glad that we hung in together and you graduated. And just keep going, Courtney! Just keep doing what you’re doing and don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. This is your life and this is what you want. And you damn well deserve it.
Courtney Zach: (15:59)
Thank you!
Ann Rea: (16:00)
Welcome. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me and share your experience and share with other people who will listen. because I think it’s one thing for people to listen to me yucky yak yak about Making Art Making Money, but I think it’s much more informative to hear from a real student what their experience was before and after the program. So thank you for sharing it.
Courtney Zach: (16:22)
Yes. And I want to tell you thank youfor everything you’ve done and for making this program and for sticking with me to the end. I appreciate everything you’ve done for me.
Ann Rea: (16:31)
You’re very welcome.
Courtney Zach: (16:32)
And what you do for other people.
Ann Rea: (16:34)
You’re very welcome. This is what I live for. I love watching these transformations. And to be clear, it’s Courtney who created her transformation. She did the work. It wasn’t always easy and we had to, you know, set her straight a few times, but she took it and she did the work and now, you know, she’s a different person. She’s the same, actually. I don’t think you’re a different person. I think you’re actually just more of who you already were.
Courtney Zach: (17:02)
Exactly.
Ann Rea: (17:03)
Yea.
Courtney Zach: (17:04)
That’s a great way to put it.
Ann Rea: (17:05)
Yeah. Alright, well thank you again. I appreciate your time and your energy and stay in touch and let us know how you’re doing.
Courtney Zach: (17:12)
Thank you so much Ann. I will!
Ann Rea: (17:15)
Bye. Bye.
Courtney Zach: (17:15)
Bye.
Ann Rea, Fine Artist & Mentor
Ann Rea is a San Francisco-based fine artist. She created Making Art Making Money®, the leading and most reputable business program for fine artists since 2005. Rea’s art and business savvy have been featured on ABC, HGTV, Creative Live, The Good Life Project, in the book Career Renegade by Jonathan Fields, the San Francisco Chronicle, Art Business News, Fortune, and Inc. Magazines. Rea’s artistic talent was commended by her mentor, art icon Wayne Thiebaud.