Do Artists Make Money at Art Fairs?

(Transcription)

Artist Travis Krause 
Denver, Colorado

Ann Rea: (00:00)
Hey everyone. This is Ann Rea coming to you live from San Francisco, California. I’m doing a whole series where I’m interviewing fine artists just like you. And the name of this series is, “Has this happened to you?”

Ann Rea: (00:17)
And the reason I’m doing this is because I want to give a voice to artists who have been screwed over, manipulated, disappointed unnecessarily, rejected unnecessarily, who’ve lost money, who’s lost time, and I think more importantly lost their dignity, their confidence, because that is probably the bigger risk, right? Because once you lose a sense of dignity and self-confidence, it’s easy to give up. And when an artist gives up on their art, something inside of them kind of dies. Also, before I get started having this great conversation with Travis, I want to remind everyone this Saturday at noon Pacific Standard Time. We have a brand new event. And you’re going to learn about the 5 stages of selling more art, making more money, more specifically making more money with your art, and doing it with less effort and more dignity.

Ann Rea: (01:26)

But registrations are really filled up that quickly. So if you want in, there’s a link below. You want to register right away if you want to get in. And if you do register, make sure you show up on time, because if you don’t show up on time, you could be locked out of the event. And it’s really, it’s going to be great. We’re also going to have a live Q&A at the end, and you can ask me anything you want about marketing or selling your art. No joke. It’s real. Okay. So Travis, you got that big fat list of all the different ways that artists are told they need to do in order to market and sell their art that don’t freaking work and they’re never going to work. And I’m going to guess there’s a few that pop out to you that you did. What’s, like, what’s on the list that you did that was just the worst?

Travis Krause: (02:24)
Well, there’s plenty of them on there that I did. The worst?

Ann Rea: (02:27)
Name the ones that you did. And then we’ll get to the worst.

Travis Krause: (02:31)
. Oh, I’ve done–

Ann Rea: (02:33)
So that everyone knows they’re not alone here, and myself included.

Travis Krause: (02:35)
You’re not alone. Art contests, Art councils, art fairs, art galleries, no reps for me, plenty of art shows, artists and residencies, artist statements. Um, and I could keep going.

Ann Rea: (02:48)
You did an artist in residency? Oh, really?

Travis Krause: (02:50)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (02:52)
Okay. Go ahead. All right. You did. And you wrote a cringy artist statement?

Travis Krause: (02:56)
I wrote a cringy artist statement. I tried to email newsletter. Once I discounted my art, or maybe a couple of times until I got a lot smarter because of somebody’s very wise instruction.

Ann Rea: (03:09)
Who would that be? ,

Travis Krause: (03:12)
Let’s see. Directory listings, catalogue.

Ann Rea: (03:14)
You did that? Oh! I hate those things.

Travis Krause: (03:18)
Yes. So I did a whole bunch of things.

Ann Rea: (03:20)
Okay.

Travis Krause: (03:20)
And they didn’t really work that well.

Ann Rea: (03:23)
No, they don’t. They all suck. Alright. So let me– what’s the one that pops out the most right now that’s like, “Damn, if I could go back in time, I wouldn’t have done that. That was awful.”?

Travis Krause: (03:34)
I think one that was it cost me the most monetarily and emotionally.

Ann Rea: (03:40)
Yes.

Travis Krause: (03:40)
It was number three on your list. It’s the art fair.

Ann Rea: (03:44)
Okay. So to be clear, everyone, there’s art shows, there’s art fairs. It, all gets really confusing. We’re talking about outdoor art fairs, right? Is that what happened?

Travis Krause: (03:54)
It was an outdoor art fair in Boulder County, Colorado.

Ann Rea: (03:58)
Okay, take me back to the moment. What happened?

Travis Krause: (04:02)
The exact moment?

Ann Rea: (04:05)
The exact moment where you’re like, “I wish I wouldn’t have done this.”

Travis Krause: (04:08)
I was holding on. Everybody gets those canopies and those tents and the booths. And I was holding on to the canopy by the frame. And the windstorm that I was in was so bad. It was picking me up in the air with all the weights and with all the stuff. And, yes. It was very exciting. I saw my artwork. I was a ceramicist.

Ann Rea: (04:31)
Oh!

Travis Krause: (04:32)
I saw all my hours, hundreds of hours, maybe a thousand hours, thousands of hours of work, blowing around, hitting the ground, exploding around me. And I was just trying to survive at that moment. But most of the work was just—

Ann Rea: (04:50)
So you’re being blown up and down in this outdoor art fair and you’re watching all of your art break in front of your eyes?

Travis Krause: (04:58)
Yes, it was traumatic. And that was back before I knew why I created art. So I was — it was even worse.

Ann Rea: (05:09)
Oh yes. Oh God. Alright. So how much do you think that whole, like paying the booth fee and all the lost inventory and hours and materials, and I’m going to guess, your display didn’t hold up all that well. What do you think that cost you?

Travis Krause: (05:27)
Wow. I never did the numbers on that because I didn’t know better back then. So I’m just gonna take a wag, a wild guess. And wow! I don’t know. I would say around $12,000.

Ann Rea: (05:45)
Oh wow! Okay. Yup. Wow. Ouch! But, all right. So how did you feel? Like, what were you feeling? You’ve hold on for dear life. You’re watching your art get destroyed in front of you. How were you feeling?

Travis Krause: (06:03)
It got so bad. I was just– I kind of shut down and just actually stepped back. And it was that laugh cry because I could do nothing. There was absolutely nothing I could do to fix anything that was happening around me. So I just felt I had given up completely at that moment and I wondered if I was ever going to make artwork again. Because what a waste of time.

Ann Rea: (06:27)
Wow!

Travis Krause: (06:27)
What a painful experience.

Ann Rea: (06:29)
Yes. Wow. Did they refund your booth fee at least?

Travis Krause: (06:32)
Oh, no way! No way. . I even– I saw one of those big tents, like with the aluminum tubing that’s like that big around and it was like the ones they rent from those rental places. And it was twisted like that.

Ann Rea: (06:53)
Oh my God!

Travis Krause: (06:54)
Like in a 90 degree turn.

Ann Rea: (06:56)
It sounds like Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz.

Travis Krause: (06:59)
It was pretty awful. Like why would you even– they had a bigger tent that was pretty well protected. Why would you ever let somebody be outside of that tent? Why would you even allow that?

Ann Rea: (07:13)
Yes, hear this all the time though. I hear from artists who are taking valuable works of art to these outdoor art fairs, wondering how to make money at art fairs like this. And they’re paying pretty hefty fees and they don’t have adequate shelter. I mean, fine art requires some shelter. You can’t just stick it outside on the lawn. Okay, So you felt like you’re going to– so you shut down and you felt like maybe you might give up and you kind of felt resigned?

Travis Krause: (07:48)
Yes, resigned is a good word. I was helpless. It was– everything was out of my control. I did, this is like comical but sad, but just the icing on the cake. I saved a couple of pieces, like maybe, maybe a box worth , I don’t know. And I packed everything and I was so distraught and disoriented and upset. When I left the show, I didn’t, this is my fault, I didn’t strap everything down well enough.

Ann Rea: (08:14)
Oh God.

Travis Krause: (08:15)
I was driving home.

Ann Rea: (08:16)
And probably because you were so discombobulated from all this trauma.

Travis Krause: (08:20)
Yes. And I was almost home and this box just lifted up out of the back of the pickup.

Ann Rea: (08:26)
Whoa.

Travis Krause: (08:27)
And it got smashed by like six trucks so all the work had left just.

Ann Rea: (08:31)
Oh my God! Talking about putting salt in the wound.

Travis Krause: (08:35)
Yes. So, it was pretty devastating. I was just like, I couldn’t even function.

Ann Rea: (08:43)
Yes. I’m not not a fan. I mean, you have really valuable pieces of art. Do artists make money at art fairs? Maybe sometimes? But these unstable environments that are provided and these art fairs are just, it’s way too much of a risk. Well, let’s say you could go back. You know, now you have the advantage of a new perspective and you have experience, you know. And you could go back in time and talk to that Travis before he paid his booth fee. What, you know, what would you say? What did you learn?

Travis Krause: (09:23)
I learned that I would never do an outdoor show ever again because you can’t control the weather, and the circumstances.

Ann Rea: (09:30)
Right.

Travis Krause: (09:31)
And you know, I know now that people who go to art fairs — they’re not my particular group of people.

Ann Rea: (09:40)
No. They’re typically there for something to do.

Travis Krause: (09:43)
Yes. My my people don’t wander around aimlessly at art fairs. They actually– I know what they do and how they spend their time.

Ann Rea: (09:51)
Right.

Travis Krause: (09:51)
So I would’ve just said, “Hey man, you’re going to waste your time hanging out there watching all your work get destroyed by the wind.”

Ann Rea: (09:58)
Right. Right.

Travis Krause: (09:59)
So I would have prevented it.

Ann Rea: (10:01)
Yes. So, you know, fine art is acquired by affluent people who value their time. They value their time. It’s often more valuable than their money. Right? Beause they got plenty of money. What they’re looking for is time. So yes, they don’t schlep around mid-low level art fairs. That’s not where you’re going to find affluent collectors. You’re going to find people looking for a bargain, asking you for a discount, and you’re going to get lost in the sea of all these other people who you can’t control who’s next to you. It might be some, you know, dumpy display you don’t know. And you’re going to be judged by the company you keep. So, okay. Alright. So thank you for sharing that. I’m so glad you can laugh about it now. Is there anything else was on that list? Like another– did another thing happen that you think was like it was awful and painful?

Travis Krause: (11:03)
Yes, it was awful and painful. Both. And that was, I had discounted my art.

Ann Rea: (11:10)
Okay. So everyone, look, if you’re listening, you’re not alone. These are all mistakes that a lot of artists are making. But if you listen, you don’t have to make them. So what happened? Give me the– what was the moment where you like you really discounted your art bad.

Travis Krause: (11:26)
So I knew at that time that discounting your art was bad. ,

Ann Rea: (11:31)
Why did you know it was bad?

Travis Krause: (11:33)
Oh. Because I have this great mentor who tells me that doing things like that is not going to lead where you think it’s going to lead and it’s going to devalue your work.

Ann Rea: (11:42)
Nope, it’s not.

Travis Krause: (11:42)
But I thought maybe in this one rare instance it was nothing.

Ann Rea: (11:46)
Oh I get. Yes, sometimes my students do not listen to me on this. And then they get a SmackDown from the universe.

Travis Krause: (11:53)
This SmackDown was harsh.

Ann Rea: (11:55)
Really? What happened?

Travis Krause: (11:57)
So a client was, well no, this is not a client.

Ann Rea: (12:02)
Okay.

Travis Krause: (12:02)
This is just an art buyer. It was an event. At any rate, he probably drank a little too much, and I was trying to talk him out of buying stuff and he pulled out, he pulled out his wallet, right? And so he made it look like he was going to pay with cash because he was pulling out cash. And I was like, “Oh, I could give him” and he mentioned something and I was like, “Well a couple percent will pull this down where cash transaction’s easy.” He made me believe I was going to do a cash transaction, so like 3 or 5% or whatever just to get the price down so I didn’t have to count back change. So I said, “Yes, I could do that. No problem.” Big mistake.

Ann Rea: (12:44)
So he asked you for the discount or you thought you offered him first?

Travis Krause: (12:48)
He asked.

Ann Rea: (12:49)
He asked you for discount. What, what percentage was he asking for?

Travis Krause: (12:53)
Oh man. It wasn’t a lot.

Ann Rea: (12:56)
Okay.

Travis Krause: (12:57)
It was like, it was less.

Ann Rea: (12:58)
It was still.

Travis Krause: (12:59)
It was less than 10%. I think.

Ann Rea: (13:01)
You don’t go into McDonald’s and get asked for a discount on a hamburger.

Travis Krause: (13:05)
No, but– and I want to show how this little discount turned into a nightmare.

Ann Rea: (13:12)
It does. It’s a boundary. It’s a boundary you guys. It is a serious professional boundary. And once you allow someone to cross it, it’s an invitation for bad stuff. Go ahead. Tell us what happened.

Travis Krause: (13:25)
I thought he was going to take a step and he ran a marathon. He said, “Well.” And this is like a slightly three dimensional piece that had a stand. And so, I also sell apparel with my designs on it. And so he asked me– what did he ask? He said, “Oh, can I have that stand that goes with the artwork?” And I said, “The stand’s not a part of the artwork.”

Ann Rea: (13:48)
Yes.

Travis Krause: (13:49)
I’m not going to pack it up for you.

Ann Rea: (13:50)
Right.

Travis Krause: (13:51)
But he gave me a discount and I was like, “The stand isn’t that much here. Here you go.” And then he said, “Well how about that hat over there with your cool like artwork on it?”

Ann Rea: (14:02)
How about it?

Travis Krause: (14:04)
What about it? And he said, “Well.”

Ann Rea: (14:05)
Like what was he asking or like implying? He wanted that for free?

Travis Krause: (14:08)
Oh yes. And I said– well, I told him the price. And he said, “Well just throw it in.” And I said, “No, I can’t do that. We already made an agreement and I’ve gone beyond that.” And he flipped out, like a super angry and boisterous and confrontational.

Ann Rea: (14:24)
Was he drunk?

Travis Krause: (14:26)
Yes. And so I actually had to– my girlfriend was near me at that booth at that time at this event. And I said, “Get your phone out and record this if anything happens.” Because he was in my face and I was like, “Oh my God!” We’re talking about such a small amount of money and transactional fees to, you know, end up going to jail for because you lay somebody out because they get aggressive with you. His buddy that was with him was so embarrassed he couldn’t even stand and watch. He turned and walked away.

Ann Rea: (15:03)
He’s a great friend. Wow!

Travis Krause: (15:04)
And I can’t remember how I got him calmed down and resolved. But immediately I said, “Look, if you’re not happy, I’ll buy everything back. No transaction.” And he got even more pissed off.

Ann Rea: (15:17)
Oh wow!

Travis Krause: (15:18)
So this little discount that I thought was like {inaudible}.

Ann Rea: (15:21)
Ballooned.

Travis Krause: (15:23)
It ballooned huge.

Ann Rea: (15:24)
Yes.

Travis Krause: (15:25)
I would never, ever, like, ever {unintelligible}.

Ann Rea: (15:29)
This is such an important lesson. It’s you know, people, you artists have trained people to entitled people to be even more entitled because you give themdamn a discount because you’re confused about the value of your art. You’re not confident in your prices. So you don’t stand by your prices. And when you don’t stand by your prices, then guess what happens? Not only do they take advantage of that, then they start taking advantage of your terms and they start calling the shots. You got to own your business, everybody. You own a business. If you’re selling art, you own a business. You don’t have a fine art career. You’re never going to have one. Ask the IRS. If you sell your art, you got to report your profit and loss from your business because it’s really going to own your business. I sound like Kim Kardashian right now. She’s got trouble with Vanity Fair.

Ann Rea: (16:23)
But it’s true. It is so true because, and the reason I’m being so– Travis is being really generous with everyone sharing these stories. They’re not like, they’re not something you feel proud about, but he’s sharing with these details with you so you can learn from them. And also if it’s something that’s happened to you, you don’t have to feel so bad about it. It’s not your fault. This happens all the time and I want to stop it as best I can. Right? Alright. Wow! Wow! I wonder if he knew you were trained in martial arts. You probably could’ve kicked his ass. But anyway.

Travis Krause: (17:05)
Well yes, that would’ve– that was just a bad situation. And you know, the whole ride home, I was just, I was trying to figure out how I could have fixed it and all I could go back to is never give a discount.

Ann Rea: (17:20)
You didn’t deserve that kind of behavior even if you did give him a discount. You gave him a discount as a gesture of good will. And it was all his fault. There’s nothing you did at all that was in any way responsible for his behavior. But it is important to understand that as fine artists, you have to hold your boundaries even stronger because of these types of entitled people who are out there and who are going to push you because they’re just assuming you’re desperate. And so they’re going to take that– they’re going to take advantage of that if they sense it in you. They don’t sense it in Travis anymore. I can tell you that now. Alright. Any other ones that was like awful?

Travis Krause: (18:10)
Like that? Those were the two most–

Ann Rea: (18:12)
Those are bad.

Travis Krause: (18:13)
Absolutely cringeworthy, but I have had some very distasteful gallery experiences.

Ann Rea: (18:19)
Can you tell me about like one in particular?

Travis Krause: (18:22)
Yes. I made arrangements and agreements with the gallery that sold fine art, but they also sold high-end jewelry.

Ann Rea: (18:30)
Okay.

Travis Krause: (18:31)
Customed jewelry. Rolex watches the whole business, and they really liked the particular thing I was doing. And I said, “Okay, well you know”

Ann Rea: (18:41)
Oh sorry! That’s my dog. Sorry.

Travis Krause: (18:44)
And–

Ann Rea: (18:44)
Rebel! Sorry.

Travis Krause: (18:47)
I had my work on display there and then they closed their doors

Ann Rea: (18:55)
As they do. Oh this is– I hear, I already know the story!

Travis Krause: (18:59)
And the story goes like this. “Where’s my work? Where’s my inventory?” Nobody called. I’ve tried to find them, and they all disappeared. And then eventually, I found them. I got a hold of them.

Ann Rea: (19:13)
You did? Good! What happened?

Travis Krause: (19:15)
“You can travel to our gallery and come pick up or travel to our place and come pick up your work.”

Ann Rea: (19:21)
What? They took your work from where you consigned it and now you have to go drive and pick it up.

Travis Krause: (19:28)
It gets better.

Ann Rea: (19:29)
It doesn’t belong to them, everybody. Oh my God!

Travis Krause: (19:32)
So I go and I get this box and I check some of it, Right? I’m like, “Here’s this. Here’s this.” So I grabbed it and I go. And in the bottom of this box is like other artists’ artwork. Some of mine is missing. It’s just a total, total mess. A disaster.

Ann Rea: (19:47)
Oh wow!

Travis Krause: (19:48)
I don’t even know whose artwork that I have now because I was not careful in checking.

Ann Rea: (19:54)
So you probably didn’t want to hang around there long. You probably wanted to get the box and go.

Travis Krause: (19:58)
Yes, that really, I was like, just let’s get this handled. So yes, if somebody’s out there feeling bad, man, I’ll go head to head with most people on all the dumb stuff you could do. But now I don’t do those things anymore because they don’t work and it’s so {unintelligible}.

Ann Rea: (20:16)
So how did you, like how did you keep going? Like I know you’ve done more than those. You’ve had more than those three experiences, but what made you keep going? What do you think it was?

Travis Krause: (20:29)
That is a great question. I pondered it a lot. I have a huge drive to creat,e and I’m super, I was always super curious like, is it every human has this? or like–

Ann Rea: (20:42)
No.

Travis Krause: (20:44)
Why do I want to continue making stuff when it keeps causing me so much trouble and so much time and I lose friends and I just keep going. I don’t care.

Ann Rea: (20:54)
You did past tense just so we’re clear.

Travis Krause: (20:56)
Yes. I used and I don’t care. Now the friends I make are awesome. But I wanted to get to the bottom of why I have this urge to create. And so I kept going. And I knew at some point I would find something that would help me answer that question. And then also additionally help me understand how to sell more work, how to sell artwork. fast forward a long time because I was doing all the those mistake things for a while. I found Making Mrt Making Money and you as a mentor. And it’s made a huge difference.

Ann Rea: (21:36)
Excellent. Excellent!

Travis Krause: (21:38)
Yes. So thank you!

Ann Rea: (21:40)
. You’re very welcome. I mean, this is my mission as I really want to help find artists take their power back and I want to help them take it back from this scarcity and permission-based art establishment. I want you to take your power back from entitled prospective collectors, and from yourself. Like just to also dissolve your own doubt. Dissolve your own skepticism. Dissolve your your skepticism. Start, you know, really examining that, because that skepticism leads to cynicism. And if you are cynical, then you are going to– it leads to self sabotage. It’s just a step-by-step process I see, and it’s not good. It doesn’t make for a good life. It’s okay to be reasonably skeptical and do your due diligence. Do your homework, and I can see.You can see like these experiences in so many other artists, it’s easy to become skeptical, cynical, and then sabotage your own success by giving up. It makes perfect sense. So if you, like, if someone’s listening right now and let’s say they’ve done one or all three of the things that you just shared, what would you say to them?

Travis Krause: (23:02)
Never give a discount.

Ann Rea: (23:04)
Yup.

Travis Krause: (23:04)
Figuring out for me, personally. Finding out why I make artwork has been huge game changer for me.

Ann Rea: (23:14)
It is. You got to know why. You got to know.

Travis Krause: (23:16)
And you know, it helps me communicate with people and talk to people in really authentic ways about my artwork.

Ann Rea: (23:22)
Yes. No more artist statements, you guys. They’re conversation killers. Don’t do it.

Travis Krause: (23:26)
Yes. And God, I’ve made some good friends, because I find out how much we share and they’ve it shared with me.

Ann Rea: (23:33)
Yup.

Travis Krause: (23:34)
And so find out why you make art. Don’t give discounts.

Ann Rea: (23:38)
No!

Travis Krause: (23:38)
Never, ever, ever do a fair again. I will not work with galleries. I think that’s kind of giving my power and my control over to other people who don’t manage it well.

Ann Rea: (23:51)
It’s giving you customer list away to people who don’t give a damn and no business, no business would survive if they didn’t have their customer list. It’s the most important asset your company owns. And art galleries and representatives take it from you even though it’s illegal in many jurisdictions. So shame on you if you’re an art representative listening to me. Who does that? Shame on you. It’s wrong. It’s just fundamentally wrong. But you have a group of people who feel disempowered and their confidence has been crushed and their soul’s been sucked out of them. They’re going to cave, you know. They’re going to put up with this crap. And you don’t need to put up with this crap. This is good news everybody. You don’t, you really don’t. Right? Am I saying– am I telling the truth, Travis?

Travis Krause: (24:39)
That would be yes. You don’t need to put up with it. That would be the last thing I would say. It’s you can take your power back. You can be in charge of your art-making and your clients, and that’s awesome. I I really like all the people that buy my artwork.

Ann Rea: (24:54)
Yes.

(24:54)
I definitely knew the relationships I have with those people.

Ann Rea: (24:58)
Yes. They’re valuable and they’re real. They’re like, they’re real. They’re lovely. I mean it’s like, I don’t think another business owner gets to have that kind of connection with their customers. It’s just they don’t, And this is why art galleries and representatives want to block you from having too much contact with the collectors, your own collectors. Because they know that people who care about fine art, care about the artist. They don’t care about the middleman. That’s the dirty little secret. The art establishment doesn’t want you to know. So that’s, they still try to convince you, “Yes, you need to write an artist’s statement.” Or “Yes, you can’t handle the sales. Don’t you worry your pretty little head about money.” That’s the messages that we get.

Travis Krause: (25:44)
And you know, I used to always, not always, previously in a kind of a lifetime ago, I’m a new person anyway. I used to think it would be really nice if I could just hand off all the marketing to somebody else and then I could just be the artist. But now —

Ann Rea: (26:02)
Nice fantasy!

Travis Krause: (26:02)
And I didn’t know how much I would actually enjoy going through the process of learning how to sell my artwork and how to make those relationships.

Ann Rea: (26:10)
It’s fantastic.

Travis Krause: (26:12)
It’s fun!

Ann Rea: (26:13)
If you know what you’re doing. If you don’t know what you’re doing, it’s hell. It’s like making art. If you don’t know what you’re doing, that would be hell. , right?

Travis Krause: (26:21)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (26:21)
Faced with a blank canvas or faced with a big, you know, block of clay. If you didn’t know what you were doing, it’d be like, “Oh God, this is awful.” So it’s the same thing. It’s a skill. You learn it just like you learned how to make art. It’s the same thing. And what you got to know is the bigger frame around you as an artist, and your art is actually your marketing and your sales. And if they suck, that’s the first thing that prospective collectors are going to notice. They’re not going to notice your art. They’re going to notice like, “Ooh, that feels weird.” That person doesn’t feel confident. That feels awkward. That’s what they’re going to sense first. And I’m guessing this drunken cool again, who almost accosted you, he probably sensed got a whiff of something that was like, “Okay, this guy’s willing to cave and give me an inch, so I’m just going to step in and take a mile.” Because he’s probably had experience doing it and it worked before for him.

Travis Krause: (27:20)
Yes.

Ann Rea: (27:22)
So if someone was like, sitting on the fence and they weren’t sure about applying to enroll in Making Art Making Money, by the way, it’s by application. What would you honestly say to them, Travis?

Travis Krause: (27:34)
If they’re sitting on the fence, that means they have– they can see good reasons why they should join. They must have a question that they want answered. Or they know somebody who has gotten something out of it. Like if they’re sitting on the fence, then right now if they’re waiting, they’re wasting time

Ann Rea: (27:52)
And money.

Travis Krause: (27:53)
And money and resources. And so the sooner you get this– if this is important to yoU.

Ann Rea: (28:00)
Yes, if your hobbyist don’t bother. Yes.

Travis Krause: (28:02)
It just drives what I think about when I wake up and before I go to bed is making art, selling art, and basically serving my my tribe. If that’s what drives you, if you’re curious about those things, if you think that’s important, then stop wasting time. Go ahea, and apply. And a number of people I’ve met through the program would echo my words loudly.

Ann Rea: (28:32)
Yes. Yes. Well if you want to learn more about Making Art Making Money, there is an event happening this Saturday at noon Pacific Standard time, 3 o’clock Eastern standard time. You want to– there’s a link below, wherever below is.Ggo ahead and register because it’s filling up soon. And if you do register, make sure you show up on time, because if you don’t show up on time and we are over capacity, you will be locked out of the event and it’s going to be great. There’s valuable new information in this event. There’s going to be a live Q&A at the end where I’ll answer your questions about marketing and selling your art. And I typically stay, you know, as long as people need me to stay to do that. But man, thank you, Travis. I’m so glad that you can laugh about this now. .

Travis Krause: (29:21)
It’s all I had left.

Ann Rea: (29:23)
Because those are painful experiences and I have to say, I wonder how many other types of entrepreneurs would hang in. I bet you they’d give up. If they were faced with that same level of degrading treatment. I don’t know that they would, I don’t. I think we have to be strong as artists. Artists are strong. And thank God you did, because now you’ve got a mission that you’re serving and you love the marketing. You love the sales. You love your works improving like there’s just so many things are so different for you now.

Travis Krause: (30:02)
It’s all connected. Like it just connected a bunch of open-ended questions in such an elegant way.

Ann Rea: (30:10)
Excellent. All right. Thank you so much for your valuable time, everybody. You want to sign up for this event. It’s going to be good. And I don’t know that I’ll be doing it again, so don’t be waiting around hoping for a next time because it may not be a next time. All right, thank you!

Travis Krause: (30:26)
You’re welcome.r